Why Cut The Turkey In Half? with Hoss Devine

Paul J Daly: 0:00I just have to put it out there that when the guest name is Haas HOSS.

‍Speaker 2: 0:10

This is auto collapse.

Paul J Daly: 0:12

My expectations are already through the life.

Kyle Mountsier: 0:17

Super high.

Michael Cirillo: 0:18

I saw his profile photo had a bucket hat on that ready to go like hello, it's gonna be a real podcast, like imagine the confidence level that one must have in order to, like he does, pull off the name Haas. Like if my name was Haas, you both, you would be like right, you wish, yeah, you wish, yeah, exactly, you wish, right, that, right, that on your.

Paul J Daly: 0:40

Starbucks cup. You know, automotive is definitely an industry that I would say is full of characters. I am probably more than any other industry I can think of, aside from maybe like entertainment. Just think about it, think of the perception of auto dealers, and then you think about like all the different get around. I'm like industry partner side. Yeah, yeah Like there's definitely a cast of characters.

Kyle Mountsier: 1:08

That's what I love about it, of course we, when we get to interview these people, it's not like and my Technology does this one thing right, like every single time I'm like you do. You know that so many times during auto collapse over the last what year and a half since we've been doing it. There's this moment that I'll be like, excuse me, what?

Paul J Daly: 1:30

we need, we need to get a bomb. We need to get, like, a bomb drop I trigger pad so that when someone says it like we can hit the bomb, drop yes, and it'll just.

Kyle Mountsier: 1:40

Well, hey, I'm sure that there might be a couple of little bomb drops, because we're always surprised and with a name like Haas, you got to believe it. So we hope you enjoy this conversation.

Michael Cirillo: 1:54

OK. So one of my biggest fears and I don't fear much, but one of my biggest fears is getting people's names wrong. Like I hate getting people's names around. So I ask is it divine or divine? And the reason is because when I moved from Canada to Texas, boy did I get tarred and feathered when I said pecan.

Paul J Daly: 2:16

They're like it is well right.

Michael Cirillo: 2:18

On rightfully so.

Hoss Devine: 2:21

Right, so I don't know. You know that could be the southern draw, but that's what I say, con.

Michael Cirillo: 2:26

All right, but that's what I had, to make sure it's not.

Hoss Devine: 2:29

It's divine, not divine you know well, if you're from the South, they might say divine OK so it's better kind of when you say it.

Michael Cirillo: 2:36

Well either way, excited to welcome you to AutoClabs Haas. Divine, thanks so much for joining us. I'll get into this. You said something pre-show and and it's left me inspired already, because I have recently embarked on a health and wellness journey down about 20 pounds, feeling all proud of myself, and then divine says I'm down 201 pounds. Wow, how in the world First of all, congratulations, baby. Yeah, first of all, congratulations, because it is. It is all sorts of hard work I've. I've realized it's the hardest thing I've ever had to do. But also this leads into the first thing I want to ask you is a bit of a get to know. You also tie into what you do in the auto industry. How have you, what have you learned about yourself during that process and how is that shaped the way you conduct business? Has it changed at all?

Hoss Devine: 3:37

Well, yeah, that's a good question why do you guys ask such tough questions? Usually, by the way, I got to have one every now and again because usually I'm like the court jester OK, we're not going to make a cry or anything right. Oh, that's up to you.

Michael Cirillo: 3:49

We'll see, we'll see, we'll see, now that we know the form of the ability, who knows no the, I would say you know growing up I had.

Hoss Devine: 3:56

My family is all big, and so every emotion in life I was raised is around food. If you're happy, you eat. If you're sad, you eat. If you're excited, you eat. If whatever happens of your life, you celebrate it with food or, you know, you suppress it with food. So sorry. You know, have to clean your plate. I mean, I remember, you know, I was like I get a kick out of it. I'm like, yeah, do you want a box for that? No, I don't need that. So it's. But really it's like, you know, trying not to Live life in excess, you know, and trying to, you know. Just, you know, food is fuel and I just had to change my mindset around food and actually, you know, I just had to change my mindset around food and actually, you know, I'd say the way that that combines to what I do now is I changed my mindset around what this business looks like, and you know. And so I changed my mindset around food to transform my health. But now I've changed my mindset around the automotive industry to transform the way we transform the way we run dealerships and the way we look at our business, because nothing that we've done, you know we've all had this old way of looking at things and you know I've been in business since I was 19 years old and 48 now. So I mean it's you know I've seen a lot of things in the industry. You know, I remember when the internet came out, I thought we were done. You know, the customer came in with an invoice and I was like, oh my God, we're going out of business now, and you know. But I was just a green piece salesman and didn't think anything about it. But but really, to me that's what innovation is, that's what change is, is it's all about changing your mindset around things and not looking at. You know, you've heard the story and I think I don't know if you've heard it, but I'll tell it real quick. It's. But you know, there was a little girl who asked her mom at Thanksgiving hey, mom, why did we cut the turkey in half and put it in the oven? And the mom said well, that's just the way grandma did it. Ask grandma when she gets here. So grandma gets there. And she asked the same question. Grandma says well, that's the way my mom did it when she gets here ask her. And so then great grandma comes in and asks her well, why do you cut the chicken turkey in half? And she said well, it's really easy, honey. Back then my oven was only big enough to hold half a turkey.

Michael Cirillo: 6:21

Oh, I'm sorry, oh no.

Hoss Devine: 6:28

But look at the way we do stuff in automotive. Why do we do stuff this way? Why do we do stuff? And it's challenging the status quo. We do stuff and we don't even know why we're doing it. It's just hey, that's the way we've always done it, so let's just do it that way. And that's why I don't work well for others. I realized a long time ago that's why I got into consulting is I don't work well for others because I challenge everything, and so the best way to do that is to challenge this industry and say, hey, there's a better way of doing business. I remember the very I was a Greenpeace salesman. I won't say the dealer's name, but I remember we used to have those Screamer pencils that we would send out to customers back in the day where I got really good at getting people to sit down and peel them off the ceiling because of the numbers we presented.

Kyle Mountsier: 7:17

Been there.

Hoss Devine: 7:20

And I asked the dealer one day. We were standing out on the pad and I said, hey, why do we treat customers the way we do? And I'm a 19-year-old Greenpeace punk and he's like you know how many people there are in Oklahoma City? And I said, well, I don't know 1.5, 2 million people. And he's like, yeah, you know how long it takes to piss off 1 and 1 1⁄2 million people. And that was the way he looked at doing business. And so, wow, and but we deserve the reputation we got back in the day as car guys. But today the business is changing and I think the internet and technology has helped our industry more than anything.

Kyle Mountsier: 8:00

What is like when you think about the oven just wasn't big enough, right, right, is there something that you can point to that, as you've been in the industry, that you've dug in and you're like, oh, I did find out why we did it that way? And it was another like oven wasn't big enough story Like, oh, it was because we had to back then. But that scenario doesn't actually even exist anymore, so why are we continuing to do that way? Or now, maybe the industry is shifting.

Hoss Devine: 8:32

Well, it's kind of funny. You bring up a point that there's actually several things that I look at that way in our industry that says why did we do it that way? And when you go back, here's an education lesson for probably a lot of people that don't know this, but I'm a student of the business so I try to learn everything that I can. I'm always learning. And let's look at service. Right, why do we write off? Why does the DMS handle ROs the way they handle ROs? And the reason why is back in the day before computers, when a customer came into the shop, we had little cards that we would write an RO on, and so the customer would come in. They'd say what's your complaint? And they would say, oh well, this is wrong. So they'd write a customer pay ticket on one card and then they'd say, oh well, let me see if you have any warranty work. And then they'd write another card with warranty work and that became the standard that transferred over into DMSs and that's why my software does little things. Different with some service stuff is because dealers are under the impression that when they look at the financial statement and they see that you've had 1,235 customer pay ROs, they think they've had 1,235 customers in there. That's not the case. My system determines, shows them hey, for service, for instance. Hey, you actually had 873 customers in there, but you had other customer pay tickets, line items that came in on warranty tickets or on internal or whatever, and so dealers don't even understand that what they're seeing. They're basing their business decisions off bad data and the DMSs. They won't go and tell them the truth.

Kyle Mountsier: 10:13

They won't tell them. That's so wild. You know what I'm saying? I love that story. That's one I didn't know. I'm like oh well, of course, because if you were building a DMS based off the fact that you had paper and now you don't digital version of what you did on paper, obviously?

Hoss Devine: 10:29

And so, with my F and I tool, I did what we did on paper and I transformed it to automate it for F and I to say, okay, we don't have paper anymore, but let's, let's take it and convert it to where now this is digital and we can do some really cool, innovative shit that we oh, excuse me, we're good, we're good. So we can do some really cool, innovative stuff to you know, to change the way the customer experience is and and to enhance the customer experience. And to me, that's what it's all about. You know, one other thing that 20 groups have done for years, which I think is a stupid metric, and it's one of those things that we've always done it because we've always done it this way, and that is back in the day there was a metric and they still use it in 20 groups to this day which is what's your percentage of comp, sales, comp to front and gross? Well, that's a great metric when you don't have any finance income, but today, 50% or 60% of a dealer's income is F and I. That's a bullshit metric that people run their business off of, and it's like dude, you're, you're front and gross, isn't? It's going away, man? I mean, you got to make, you're going to make 50, 60.

Kyle Mountsier: 11:40

Yeah, it came back for 18 months, but it's going away again. Everybody, just I mean, you know, you start to see that stuff dropping, now that the markets kind of that's so interesting because I've heard so many dealers be like 15%, 15% is my front and my comp to front and gross like over and out. That's what it's got to be and if it's not, then it's not. But then you hear and you got some dealers and they're like I've never cared about that and they're like but look at my net profit statement, Right, I mean, here's the thing like I have paid.

Hoss Devine: 12:13

You know, I have a pay plan that I put in stores when I did consulting and I'm not, I'm not on pitch pay plans, but if a dealer asked me, I tell them but but I pay a salesperson off, all gross, it doesn't matter, all of it, you know, and I get my content down. But if you do that measurement and you get everybody pulling on the same rope I call it profit sharing pay plan and it gets the salesperson to think like a dealer and the more money the salesperson, the dealer, makes, the more money the salesman makes. And the less money the dealer makes, the less money the salesman makes. And so and you end up paying people more than they've ever made and your comp comes in less than it's ever come in before, because it's not a traditional pay plan, it's innovative, it's outside the box, but they're getting paid on everything and it's getting them to think like a dealer and so, but it throws that metric way out of the realm, you know, way out of whack. So the question is you know.

Paul J Daly: 13:04

The question is so you told the story. You know about the discipline that it took and the mindset shift that it took to lose 200 pounds over a number of years. We're talking about a mindset shift that needs to happen. That doesn't sound like it's easily going to happen all at once, right, just like you can't lose 200 pounds at once, right. But you have to have discipline over time. What are the things and the mechanisms that you use to start to shift the perspective of the folks that are locked into this old way? Right, just because we cut it in half, because that's what we do. What are the things that you see work as you start to try to turn the head of a dealer, maybe not make a wholesale change, but like can we stair, step them there? You have any experience you can share with us there.

Hoss Devine: 13:51

Well, man, it's. You know. All the years I call it leading people down the path of self discovery. You know understanding what the right questions are to ask that elicit that per. Here's the thing dealers no offense to dealers. I've been around in my whole life. I love them. My best friends are dealers, but a lot of them are very stuck in their ways. They don't like to hear what, you know, a new, alternative way is, and so it's. You know it has to be their idea, and so the only way to make it their idea is to lead them down the path of self discovery and, uh, and to ask those right questions. Um, I'll give you an example. I spent millions of dollars, yeah.

Kyle Mountsier: 14:30

Yeah, hold on real quick. I think that we say that about dealers, but I think it's probably more universal than that, right? Like, go back to your story about health and wellness, right? You probably could have watched like I don't know 500 videos on why you should stop eating so much, right, but there was some level of self-discovery that led you to like maybe there's a better way, right? And I think that that's like we pin it on people. That's human nature. Oh, they're next.

Hoss Devine: 15:00

That you know, when it's to elicit change. I have a saying that I've done personally, which is the pain of doing it has to be greater than the pain of not doing it, and so you know, the pain of eating too much and being unhealthy has to become greater than the pain of eating healthy. I mean it goes.

Paul J Daly: 15:20

I've heard a similar statement, like when they talk about you know, like rebel groups with small arms holding off large armies. They're like the pain of occupation has to just you have to just make it hurt more than the value of just holding the territory.

Hoss Devine: 15:34

Yeah, and the thing is, it's about that mental mindset, right, and you know, the brain is such a powerful thing and that's. You know, I love studying psychology. That was, you know, something that I've loved for years. I mean, I have an executive coach who, you know, I talked to on a weekly basis, who, you know, is just phenomenal about human engineering. All my people have the ability to talk to him anytime they want to as well, you know. And so it's all about creating that right mental mindset to create success, and it doesn't matter what that success is, but it's about that mental mindset and how you shift your thinking Hold up, hold up, Because you just dropped something.

Kyle Mountsier: 16:18

That was you just like. You just like I think Cervillo knows what you just were like. You know, it just kind of spilled out of your mouth but you were like I've got this executive coach. I talked to him weekly but you know, I made him, he's got. Everybody on my team has access to him. You know, you just do a whole podcast about that, right there, right, because it's like how many executives, general managers, owners of companies, all that type of stuff have an executive coach, get mentoring, all that type of stuff? It's the person that they believe is the best suited to make sure that their business is able to succeed and would never give their team access to that. What led you to that belief? To go like, hey, this executive coach, you have access to him, because that is not cheap. It's not cheap.

Hoss Devine: 17:04

I mean, it's right, it's far from cheap. What are we talking here? No, but at the end of the day, here's what it's all about to me. As an employer, I have a responsibility to make sure that my employees are better husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, everything and if I do that, they become better employees. And so if I make sure that their lifestyle and the way they deal with their life and their kids and their family and everything else is all good, then they become better employees and they work harder and do better. That's why I have unlimited PTO in my company. I don't care, take time off. Who gives a shit? You know, if you got your job done, do it, but hey, if you got stuff, you know 20%. I've learned this over the years. 20% of everybody in your company always has something personal going on, and so, you know, when I hired sales people, I would always hire 20% more than I needed, because I always knew that 20% of them was gonna have some drama or crisis in their life that's not gonna allow them to work. And so I made up for that by hiring 20% more, so that I always had the full-time staff that I needed. And so you know, I think, letting people be them. You know, I mean, I have people on my team that have ADHD real bad and that you know, sometimes kind of, you know, go off the rails a little bit and throw a temper tantrum or whatever, and I walk in and they're throwing a temper tantrum and I'm like, whoa, what happened to you this morning? Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. And I'm like, okay, then I go to my office, like coming back a couple hours later, and I'm like, all right, man, you got your head straight, you get you done throwing your temper tantrum. All right, it gets to work.

Kyle Mountsier: 18:46

You know I mean so I feel like that accent that has the ability to walk in and ask someone, if they're done flowing, yeah, yeah yeah, get to it.

Paul J Daly: 18:57

Yeah, I don't know, but yeah, I mean, it's just about you know.

Hoss Devine: 19:00

Hey, I want to be the best person I can be. I want to you know me personally, it's all about being the best, not being a know-it-all, always having that student and learning mentality, and I try to focus that on my team.

Michael Cirillo: 19:13

So Do you have those hats behind you? Is there a code for each hat Like?

Kyle Mountsier: 19:19

yo when Ross is wearing that hat when Ross is wearing that, it's on Walk in the opposite direction.

Hoss Devine: 19:24

No, I just that's not all the hats I have, but it's just the only ones. That's all that rack of hold.

Michael Cirillo: 19:30

I love it. This is like almost a version of Mr Rogers, because I picture you walking into your office, taking one hat off, putting another hat on, except that the melody to Mr Rogers is being played on a banjo.

Hoss Devine: 19:41

Yeah, oh man.

Kyle Mountsier: 19:43

It has been just a ton of fun hanging out with you and we've barely known you before hanging out with you here, but we can tell you're a man after our hearts and it's been a ton of fun kind of digging into your beliefs and what you're doing to support the auto industry. I know you'll be at a SOTUCon and people can reach out to you obviously. Thanks so much and on behalf of all of us at AutoClub, I appreciate you. Oh hey, thanks, man.

Hoss Devine: 20:11

Have everybody stop by the booth.

Paul J Daly: 20:18

Okay, haas. Name. Check Cowboy hat. Check Three cowboy hats in the background. Check Triple check. There's more. Hold on, I mean his last name's divine Apologize for cursing on the show. Check, he's a gentleman. Continue to curse for emphasis.

Kyle Mountsier: 20:37

After that check.

Paul J Daly: 20:38

Like Haas, is our new best friend.

Kyle Mountsier: 20:40

This guy is great. And every time it was like something mind blowing that he said like all the other stuff he was like so intent. And then the mind blowing stuff.

Paul J Daly: 20:48

He'd be like I'm in that. Yeah, Pull the pin, throw it, Just keep walking like the guy that walks away from an explosion without flinching. He is that guy.

Michael Cirillo: 20:58

Yeah, you were talking earlier about characters in the auto industry and I think you know like this is one of those things as we seek to dispel the you know, especially through more than cars, we kind of seek to dispel that negative stigma that looms over the industry. I've never met more people outside of an Amway convention who are so committed to personal development.

Kyle Mountsier: 21:20

Right Like this dude gives up his. He makes sure his executive coach is available to his entire staff.

Michael Cirillo: 21:27

Yeah, like what, and I think that's the side of the industry that the three of us see regularly.

Paul J Daly: 21:32

It's a norm, it is actually For him.

Michael Cirillo: 21:34

He glosses over it because he's like, of course, a personal develop. Of course I want my team to elevate, and that's the story that we, you know, through a so do. Obviously we seek to just get out there more and more so that more and more people realize that, Because I think, if they really understood how not only to one and four Americans work in the auto industry in one shape or form that the commitment to growth and development and elevating people around you is bar none at a higher threshold than I've ever seen, and he's no exception.

Paul J Daly: 22:05

So I doubt, I don't think we can end on a better note than that. On behalf of Kyle Mount, cyr, michael Cyrillo and myself, thank you so much for listening to Auto Collapse.

Speaker 2: 22:15

Sign up for our free and fun to read daily email for a free shot of relevant news and automotive retail media and pop culture. You can get it now at a so to dot com. That's ASOtucom. If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time. Welcome to Auto Collapse. Welcome to.

Michael Cirillo: 22:46

Auto Collapse.

Paul J Daly: 22:50

Why are we recording? We're rolling.

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