Why Customers Leave Bad Reviews with Matt Murray of Widewail

Paul J Daly: 0:00

Wait, you went to the chiropractor, got a massage, and then slept on a plane. Funny, yeah, feel good. So it's like

‍Kyle Mountsier: 0:06

it just undid all the good.

Unknown: 0:13

This is Auto Collabs. Those

Paul J Daly: 0:16

are that's three reasons why I don't feel bad for you. Number one, you got a massage. Number two, you went to the chiropractor. And number three, you were able to sleep on a plane.

Kyle Mountsier: 0:24

Get the massage. Okay, chiropractor, look at all

Paul J Daly: 0:29

this money I have. It's no

Kyle Mountsier: 0:31

no. Stop, stop. Get out of here. I wish you just want to take that one again and restart it. Why I thought we were starting? Oh, okay, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't know if like the pick and follow

Paul J Daly: 0:44

this. Yeah, we

Kyle Mountsier: 0:46

should. I had somewhere I was,

Unknown: 0:49

I will, I will see myself out. I

Paul J Daly: 0:52

felt like that was a good intro. That was a great intro. Let's keep the intro. Michael Cirillo turned his hat backwards now, yeah, I

Michael Cirillo: 0:59

didn't like the glare, the shadow over my glasses, it's reflecting

Paul J Daly: 1:04

off your Invisalign. Yeah,

Unknown: 1:06

so those are out. I took my teeth out

Kyle Mountsier: 1:09

for a recording. We got chiropractors and Invisalign, and the whole night. It's getting bad around here, guys, I feel

Paul J Daly: 1:14

like we're getting to the point now in our media career where we may need to start thinking seriously about how white we can get our teeth? No, well, because the thing is, if one of us just decides to do it, the other ones are gonna have

Kyle Mountsier: 1:33

to do it. It's gonna have to happen. Cirillo is getting white teeth. I'm calling it first. That's happening. Probably he's gonna, he's gonna do, start a fit, check Instagram. It's gonna be great

Michael Cirillo: 1:45

if I come in and I start sounding a little bit drunk on these calls, you'll know, I got lazy and just started leaving my Invisalign in though, I'll be like, I'll start talking like Mike Tyson. All

Kyle Mountsier: 1:55

of a sudden, we check our like, we check our reviews on on, uh, Apple and Spotify, and they're like, Who are these fools talking about their geriatrics? It's unbelievable.

Michael Cirillo: 2:06

That would be us. We need a Kyle level segue. Speaking of geriatrics, no speaking of

Unknown: 2:11

reviews, we have reviews that's

Michael Cirillo: 2:14

not old at all. Mountsier segue, I can't do it

Kyle Mountsier: 2:17

unbelievable. We're hanging out with Matt Murray wide whale today, if you don't know, he created this crazy reviews platform that has grown like wild. He's got cool insights, and he's just one of the, like, regular guys of automotive I've always enjoyed hanging out with him. He's smart too, you know? So

Michael Cirillo: 2:38

he was also there for the heyday of dealer.com Yeah. Chip grow. So I hope we get to talk to him a little bit about that. Well,

Kyle Mountsier: 2:47

hey, we hope you enjoy this conversation with Matt Murray. All right, we were talking before the show. This show is solely going to be about industry partner merch. If you came here for anything else, you've got the wrong idea why Michael's not wearing his hat. Ah, done. Oh no. Oh, wrong. I had to go with that thing. Unbelievable. We got Matt Murray with wide Well, here hanging out. We're gonna be nerding out over some data today. I think, Matt, thanks for joining us on the show. Man,

Matt Murray: 3:23

yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it, guys. So

Kyle Mountsier: 3:25

I, you know, I think, what was it? A little over a year ago, you guys decided to start, you know, I talked to so many companies in Auto, and it's like, do you understand the data that you're sitting on? It's insane. It's actually ridiculous. How many companies have such rich data that, like, if more people knew about it, they would, we might be able to, like, figure more stuff out. So it didn't live in a bucket. How did it come? Where you were like, Hey, we're just going to start sharing some of this, like, macro data that we have who, who had the grand idea these,

Matt Murray: 3:55

that's, that's a good one. So if you go back to 2018 when we started collecting reviews, we we wanted to be able to do this to make sense of what is really super unstructured data. And then our Director of Marketing, Jake, started in 19 and he had one goal. I said, Jake, we got to look bigger than we are. We are a brand new company, right? We all

Paul J Daly: 4:17

know how that feels. Yeah. Maybe

Matt Murray: 4:21

he goes, Well, we where's our first party data if we're going to be, you know, a little bit resource constrained. In other words, we don't have millions of dollars. We need to tell the industry about itself so that people are interested in what we do. And around that exact same time, I think it was through the friend network, we got connected with a PhD at Princeton, who was doing her capstone project, excuse me, and she's like, I just need a whole bunch of data. I'm going to do some topic and sentiment analysis with some legacy technology. And we shipped her 10,000 reviews, which, at the time, for us, was enormous, like we were all really excited. 10,000 reviews felt big, and we gave her one question, why do people leave negative reviews for car dealerships? And what's interesting to me is her answer, with 10,000 reviews, is still found in this study of 8 million reviews. Ah, wow,

Paul J Daly: 5:15

yeah, that's

Kyle Mountsier: 5:16

a wait. That Okay. That's a really interesting question, though. It's not like, why are like, where are dealers failing? It's why do people that's actually like, I've never heard that question asked in that way out of Paul Michael, have you ever heard that question asked in that way? Nope,

Paul J Daly: 5:36

but it does seem, it does seem like the root, the root question answer, why do they like everything else, right? It's going to give you a high level you

Kyle Mountsier: 5:45

could give you could come to a different conclusion than I think maybe you would normally come if you asked that question, yeah,

Paul J Daly: 5:51

because the, I mean, we're just now, you're going to tell us the answer, but, but what you would think is that you would find some broad, overarching sentiment that spans in person, online, like all the experiences wrapped into one that you can actually back into. But what did they say? Yeah.

Matt Murray: 6:09

I mean, our answer is really simple, and you'll find folks that we all know talking about this, even without wide whale data. But it's really our people, like plain and simple, people drive communication. People are the ones that are helpful and professional and knowledgeable for the customer and what the data, oftentimes I end up with this perspective of like, you know, what technology would change the experience? Because if I listen to the customer, it's not about technology at all. They just talk about people. They don't, they don't talk about the AI bot on your website. They don't talk about your lead capture form or how long it was. They don't talk about the paid search ad that they clicked. It's, you know, my sales rep, my service advisor, or, you know, the staff and finance. Well,

Kyle Mountsier: 6:56

we go so we go around. We've, we've been talking about this a while, but you're, you're, you're, like, shedding a different light on it that I'm super interested in. I want to dig in more is and Paul and I say this, so we do these in the dirt type man on the street interviews, and we'll go like, downtown Nashville, downtown Philly, downtown wherever. And we typically have a line of questioning around like, when was last time you bought a car all this type of stuff. Would you like, EVS not. And it's just fun. But we always, we always have this question where it's like, what do you think about car dealers? And people start with like, Ah, I don't know, car dealers. Man, right? And then the immediately we go, Well, how about the last time you bought a car? And the first I'm telling you, I at some point we're gonna have Nathan, he's off screen. We're gonna go back and and every single one starts with something I really like my salesperson. Like, that's the first it's not like, I showed the car to everybody and I got digital retailing, and you wouldn't believe the deal I got. It was like, Yeah, we literally

Paul J Daly: 7:57

said we've never heard anyone say something bad about a salesperson. It's

Kyle Mountsier: 8:01

unbelievable. Only really good

Paul J Daly: 8:03

things. You know

Matt Murray: 8:05

what's really interesting on that point, Paul, the review data. If you just look at positive reviews and compare them to negative, if it's positive, the customer will call out the individual. They'll use the name Paul was great. If it's negative, it's the staff or the service department, or they don't like to use a person's name that you know, little bit of psychology, maybe, but it's gonna say, Do you think

Michael Cirillo: 8:29

that's because they're secretly afraid of confrontation, so they don't want to call out the individual, so the whole organization takes the hit from one turd burglar, ruining the experience for the customer.

Matt Murray: 8:44

Yeah. I mean, look, we sort of forget. At least I do. Maybe you guys don't, but that that car dealership on Main Street USA is the center of the community, right? It's the business, business, maybe with the most revenue. In some cases it's the biggest, 80 to 250, people, yeah, and my kids go to school with them, and we're on the same soccer teams, and, you know, like, it's, it's part of the fabric of the community. So maybe being, you know, confrontationally adverse or adverse confrontation, it totally makes sense to

Paul J Daly: 9:16

me. Yeah. I mean, I'm like that. If I leave a Google review for a business, I try, I don't leave, leave a ton. I think that's I'm going to save that for my retirement. I'm just going to be professional Google review, because it is really fun, especially retail, because we talk about retail. But if I ever leave a good review, it typically names somebody, and if I leave a bad review, it will never name somebody.

Unknown: 9:40

Yeah, you don't want to blame them. No,

Kyle Mountsier: 9:43

I'm like, My mind is blown because I've said, See, this is like, this is getting such to the heart of what I really believe. But it's like the data is proving it out is, I keep telling people that you're, you know, everybody wants to put out like, value propositions of like, we come so. Service to you. You can buy a car online. Whatever these like, what I would call like, fleeting value propositions are. And I keep saying the single greatest value proposition of the franchise retail automotive industry is its people. And you're just saying, like, the data proves that quite clearly, like, when people have a great experience, they they they note that people created that great experience.

Matt Murray: 10:25

Yeah, I mean, I've spent my entire career in automotive Digital Marketing Tech, and while this isn't a popular point of view, I think sometimes we as as a dealership, you buy technology to make yourself more efficient, right, to drive a better bottom line. And sometimes that's, that's a real short term perspective, right? Because ultimately, we got to build trust with this community so they keep coming back. So my kids, kids say, Yeah, I work with heritage Ford, right? And, and so you know that short term thinking, we've seen it over and over again. I'm going to buy a bunch of digital retailing tools, and I'm going to AI all the things because I want a better bottom line that's not necessarily a great long term strategy.

Paul J Daly: 11:10

Well, let me ask you a question now, now that we're EIGHT minutes into this podcast, because we got us excited, how did you get into automotive? I don't know the answer to this question, but it's a one that I always want to know the answer

Matt Murray: 11:23

to, yeah. I was in the Navy. I left college about halfway joined the Navy. Just to go, I needed to do something, and so I did that from 2000 to 2006 came out of the Navy, moved to Manhattan, because when you're 26 that's what you do. Turns out, yeah. Turns out that wasn't a good decision, different than the Navy, I bet. So I ended up, I ended up back home with my folks and found dealer.com shortly after moving back home and came in to just learn the industry, learn technology, and, you know, live through the heyda there. It was an unbelievable 10 years from 2007 to 17, and I've never left. Like, why would you leave auto,

Paul J Daly: 12:07

we can, we can. We can relate. Next, we were gonna ask something before.

Michael Cirillo: 12:12

No, no, that that ship has sailed. No pun intended. Yeah.

Kyle Mountsier: 12:20

Okay, so before we get to the report, because there's some interesting insights that I want people to draw out, I have to get this. We found out something. You know, we do these, like, we're, we're professional podcasters. I don't know if anyone knew that or not, but, but we, we asked, we found out that the name wide whale wasn't because, like, you know, everyone's gonna widely whale their stories. Like, there's another reason for that. Give us that, give us the background on that.

Matt Murray: 12:47

I'll try to make it quick. When I was in the Navy, I picked up a guitar and just fell in love with the acoustic guitar, decided I was going to start a music production company. I needed a name for it. So wide whale was initially wide whale, like corduroy, W, A, L, E, right? And then, believe it or not, didn't start a music production company. Years later, as.com was growing, I was thinking, You know what? You don't need a billion dollar company. You need 20, $50 million companies. And what would the holding company be so wide whale came back for me then. Then it became my Xbox handle. So every time I played Xbox with my son, I was wide whale. And when we started this business, my wife and I are trying to figure out, well, what do we name it? And I'm over at GoDaddy, like trying different URLs on, and the closest we got was rep, mon, R, E, P, M, O n.com, and obviously that was really,

Paul J Daly: 13:46

we couldn't go that way, glad the way he said that he's like, obviously that was wrong. That

Matt Murray: 13:52

was just a big Nope. So wide whale came back for me. And to be frank, like at the very in the very early stages, I thought someday we might rebrand. Right? Every large you know, if you look at the story of almost every business, they rebrand at some point. But in that first year, year and a half, we were on the phone calling dealers, and we would have to spell our name, because they'd be like white wall. What are you? You're the white whale

Paul J Daly: 14:19

with a name like a soda. We spend a lot of time. That's how I just put it on. Put it on my hat, so I can be like, breathe right here. Yeah,

Matt Murray: 14:26

yeah, yeah. And it's, it's turned out to be a really great choice from a branding perspective.

Kyle Mountsier: 14:32

Yeah, that's strong. That's awesome. So all right, let's get into the study. Because, you know, you've, you've kind of looked over the last what year worth of data you've said, okay, where, what do we what are we learning from this year? What does that mean about what we're heading I like to maybe, like, tackle a few of those notes specifically from this year. I think let's, let's start with, because we talked about people where, where are we seeing trends? When it, when it pertains to, like people talking, you know, consumers talking about the people that they're dealing with. Yeah.

Matt Murray: 15:07

So the data this year is the beginning of 2023, through q3 of 2024, every Google review for every new car dealer in the US. And we do. Tree got it. Yeah, it was, it was 8.1 something million. And so we're presenting some year over year trends which is great, specific topics we can now see over that seven quarters, the headline this year, for sure, is negativity around staff interactions is up 20% driven primarily by sales interactions. Sales saw a 27% jump in negativity. But even as we look so, service saw a 15% jump. And if we break luxury and non luxury dealers, they all saw an increase in negativity. It's pretty much across the board within that of course, there are specific interactions. So when somebody talks about staff, they might also be talking about how knowledgeable that person was, or how professional or helpful they were, and in almost every case, we saw a growth in negativity in those traits as well.

Paul J Daly: 16:13

So that's a challenge. Yeah, let me ask you this with a number of reviews, up or down,

Matt Murray: 16:20

reviews generally. I mean, every year, the average dealership receives more reviews than the increase, right? Yeah, increase across the board, but as a percentage, the mention of negativity around staff is up 20% communication is up 14%

Paul J Daly: 16:35

why that is? I mean, we can all you know, yeah, yes, but do you, do you know why? Or do you have an idea why? Yeah,

Matt Murray: 16:42

I have a good feeling, and most of it centers around the fact that our our industry, has been through a lot the last four years, right? So if you bought a car in 2021 let's say you bought a car at MSRP or higher, and there really were no incentives to speak of. You just bought the car, and now OEMs are back, looking for market share. Supply is up. We need to move metal. Incentives are flying. Negotiation is back, big time, right? Like customers are after a deal, yep, and at the same time, I mean, look, one out of five vehicles sold in the US today is a non ice vehicle, so our sales people now have to represent a plug in hybrid, a hybrid and ice, all the incentives and product knowledge associated with all those platforms. And I think it's showing up a little bit, as you know, a ton of complexity and maybe a lack of training. Do you think that,

Paul J Daly: 17:37

as you're talking about, like, the inventory shortage conditions. I think about people paying over MSRP, you know, say, two to three years leading up to when we got inventory back. You think a part of those sales conversations are now people realizing it that they are underwater in their trade. I know it's kind of early for that, but it's happening, right? That's gonna damper on it quick. When you're like, hey, great, yeah, you need to figure out where to put the seven grand of negative equity in this team.

Matt Murray: 18:10

I think that'll be, that'll be a long tail of negativity. Yeah, oh yeah. Average car on the road is now 12.6 years, years.

Paul J Daly: 18:19

So it went up. It literally went up this morning. Well, I don't know if it just went up this morning, but we just saw something that just went up.

Michael Cirillo: 18:28

This was, like, literally the most unpopular opinion during that swell. Unexplainable was, okay, what's the long term impact of this? You're going to have customers who will resent you for a very long time. Yeah, because everyone knows and nobody is apologizing for it, that you're taking advantage of everybody, and consumers will not soon forget, how much of that negative like, Do you think there's got to be a portion of that negative review increase of people that are like, I'm buying the car anyways, but boy, I'm just so unhappy doing it. Because I know, I know you. You screwed me over three years. Yeah. I mean,

Matt Murray: 19:07

everybody wants a deal, yeah, right. And I think it's hard to feel like you're getting a deal unless, unless you're the EV customer right now who is sharing less negativity around the cost of the vehicle, or available deals. It seems like the EV segment has some positivity there, but the MA, the vast majority of customers, are in search of a deal that either they haven't found or, to your point, they're having a hard time structuring it, or they're being pressured in the finance office. And I just think, I just think that a lot of this can be tied right back to the complexity of the moment, right? The industry has changed so quickly

Kyle Mountsier: 19:44

well, and it just enhances the need for heightened communication, increased training, right? It's like we have to double down on those things, because if the front line, if the sales person, if the service advisor is the person that. A consumer is waiting on to have the right information, with the right emotional intelligence, with the right empathy in the moment, understanding the complexity, squaring that with the reality, like that's the person that's going to be in the weeds with these consumers. So if, like, what you're saying earlier is if people have a great experience is because of the person that we have to double down on ensuring that the path to that is strong, because the risk is actually so much higher, it's it's a risky situation to send someone untrained into when the complexity is so great, right? Yeah,

Matt Murray: 20:38

and sales gets exposed, right? Because the customer gets to ask questions live right there on the showroom floor, and they're expected to know service has a little bit of a different feel. If I'm just getting my oil changed, my tires rotated, I kind of know what that looks and feels like. I know about what it's going to cost with a vehicle, yeah, and then, and then even so, like, let's say there's a noise, right? Something's wrong with my car and I bring it in service isn't expected to know what's going on. They say, Okay, Mr. Murray, I'll take your vehicle back there. We'll be in touch. True. That's a nice buffer for them, big

Paul J Daly: 21:10

time, right? Well, you mentioned, you mentioned EVs. Is there some data specifically around EV purchasing that you can share?

Matt Murray: 21:18

Yeah. So the beauty of this data is we can take all of these reviews and set some benchmarks across all interactions, and then we can start breaking apart the cohorts. So how does sales do versus service luxury, non luxury, when we look at EV specific interactions compared to ice, what we see is a ton of negativity for the EV customer around knowledge and helpfulness, so greater than 70% increase in negativity year over year for EV customers from the sales staff. Wow, right,

Paul J Daly: 21:53

right. Just saying, I went there and they didn't know anything. Yeah.

Matt Murray: 21:57

I mean, it plays out and like, hey, I want this trim level. EV, what's the range? And

Paul J Daly: 22:03

they go, um,

Kyle Mountsier: 22:05

well, the data is a lot more complex, too. Of what you need to know for sure, because you just, you just mentioned one, right? This trim level has a different mileage, right? It's no longer just like, oh yeah, all the equinoxes get 32 miles the gallon average city and highway, because they all have the same engine and transmission in them. It's like, Nope, we gave this one a little bit more and this one a little bit less. All

Paul J Daly: 22:26

Wheel Drive. This is two wheel drive. Totally changes fuel efficient. And by the

Michael Cirillo: 22:30

way, you will never see that fuel if it you'll never see that mileage because of the way you drive that thing.

Paul J Daly: 22:36

Yeah, right.

Matt Murray: 22:39

Interesting. I don't think we I don't think we saw this in 23 but the reduction in negativity around maintenance for the EV customer, super interesting. So I think the consumer is starting to figure out that that vehicle, that platform, is a little easier to maintain, at least in the moment, right? I'm not worried about the oil change, for instance. So less negativity there. And I said deals earlier, but there's still, you know, state level incentives out there, so folks are feeling like they're getting a deal, and there's a ton more competition. So maybe prices, you know, I can get into an EV for much less than I could three years ago. That feels

Paul J Daly: 23:17

better in a lot of cases. It's the cheapest option. We were just talking about the Colorado incentive of $12,500 total between state and federal, just be able to put 12 five down on the car. And so, as a result, Colorado's EV adoption has one out of every four cars sold in Colorado last year was an EV. It's crazy. Wow. 25% it's nuts. Insane. Was it 25 or was it 20 it was 26 No, no. It's like one in four or one in five. So I guess when people are buying in those numbers, it makes sense that negativity goes down. You know, cost, right? I mean, if you're out price, you're leasing, holy crap, at least some of these cars you can for like 299 a month. It's like a$60,000 vehicle,

Matt Murray: 24:02

yeah, oh, sorry. One, one related, just one related stat. There negative sentiment around cost in service broadly is up. So we were just talking about how old vehicles are, our customer is now running into the things they never had to pay for before, right? So we looked at so that, you know, S and P tells us 12.6 is the average age of a vehicle. So then we looked at review data to see if we could understand, you know, what's going on. What are people talking about in service? The mention of brakes is up over 30% transmission is up over 30% engine is up over 30% and in every case you know, it's 1300 bucks. It's 5000 bucks. It's$10,000 for an engine like these are things the average consumer hasn't had to deal with, right? And we're not out in front of it, helping them understand what

Paul J Daly: 24:56

to expect. Yeah. I mean, at 12 years on average, right? Like. You're 150 200,000 miles on that thing. You're going to get into replacing things. Yeah,

Matt Murray: 25:05

what's the transmission?

Michael Cirillo: 25:08

I want to ask you this. I mean, as we kind of wind this down, you had mentioned earlier, training now, just listening to you now, there's kind of a training track in here. I love the paradigm shift that I've been writing notes on here, which is so many dealers in our industry are so focused on competition, right? That, like, what's my competitor doing? They go to their 20 group and they bring up their digital composites and the blah, blah blah, not realizing that the number one thing they are competing against is the industry. It's the market. It's what they're up against. It's, you know, being empowered by this information. What do we do with all of this data? How do we it? Because it's, it's more than just having a conversation, right? It's, it's so much more than that. So what are your recommendations for the dealer listening to say, oh, okay, now that I know this, what do I do with it?

Matt Murray: 26:03

Yeah, I I always think about the annual planning process. Every business goes through this. Hey, you know, the year is winding down. We get to September, we start thinking about next year. And oftentimes, when we're thinking about investments in next year, it's that that new technology, or I need valet service, or I need some other bell and whistle on my operation. That's not the answer. What our customer is telling us is that the very basics that made automotive part of the fabric of our communities is what's going to make it successful in the future as well. Right good people helping people in their community find the right vehicle or take care of the car they currently own. Make it a great experience for me, I will always come back. So Will my kids and so on, right? So when we talk to dealers, so we share this data, we generally say, Look, we can. We can bring these insights to daily, weekly, monthly, through the platform, make sense of what your customer is saying. Show you where you benchmark and therefore where you should focus. And it's that, again, it seems basic, but technology to replace people is not what our customer wants, right? Really well trained, positive, supportive staff and sales and service, that's what makes the foundation of a successful business. It's huge,

Michael Cirillo: 27:23

and I mean, it resonates so deeply with the mission here. It

Unknown: 27:26

sure does people. People now. Matt, as we wind down,

Michael Cirillo: 27:30

we want to thank you for joining us on Auto Collabs. How can those listening and watching get in touch with you?

Matt Murray: 27:35

Wide whale.com, come check us out. You can find us on all the socials as well, but we'd love to connect.

Paul J Daly: 27:43

Hold on, W, I, D, E, W, A, I l.com, in not W, h, i t,

Kyle Mountsier: 27:54

w, H, A, L, E, you need to buy white whale.com just to mess

Unknown: 28:01

with everyone that is a grand listen to having me.

Kyle Mountsier: 28:10

Okay, guys, it's like we've been saying it. There's something about people and communication in the water. I don't know if anybody's heard this one.

Paul J Daly: 28:22

Funny thing about how that works. Funny

Kyle Mountsier: 28:24

thing about how it works. I think for me, the most interesting thing about this is that, you know, with all of the information that's available online right now, right like the myriad of articles and research places and things, places you can go to figure out about EVs and ice, all this stuff, people are still craving knowledgeable, like intelligible people to interact with and ask questions and get regular communication back. Like they want that out of their dealership experience.

Michael Cirillo: 28:59

It's like this, like, I'm really interested in, here's, here's a kind of an adjacent thing, the way I think about what Matt was saying, I'm really interested in real estate investing. I could undoubtedly find everything I need to and prompt GPT and get all the info. What does that mean? And this and that, I still wanted to sit down with a buddy of mine who's been doing it for the last 20 years to get the ins and outs and, like, the gut check that that's what AI still isn't giving us. It's not giving us the gut check of, like, okay, dude, but what should I do now that you know where I want to go? What should I do? And it's the same thing with buying a car. Like, I think sometimes we forget that this really is the second largest purchase that people make in a three to five year period of time, and they want to make sure that they're not making a mistake. And AI is not going to tell them if they're making a mistake or not,

Paul J Daly: 29:53

right? Very true. Very true. It's kind of goes back to, you know when, when we talk about so. Social media marketing, and when people just come up with their idea or strategy, especially if they're not experts, they all of a sudden overlay or they forget how they navigate social media, and they forget how they consume social media. But do you actually do that? No, let me watch you for five would you like watching seconds? Would you engage with that? No, would you like that? No, you wouldn't. And it's the same thing. I think with this AI conversation, it's very alluring to say it's going to fix everything, and we can just deploy the bots. And in reality, it's like, what would you rather do? It's like, I'd rather talk to a person that's right. It's the same principle.

Kyle Mountsier: 30:38

Same principle. Well, hey, look, on behalf of Paul J Daly, Michael Cirillo, myself, Kyle Mountsier, Matt Murray, he joined us today. We really hope you enjoyed this conversation. Like subscribe, do all the things. Share this with someone that you think might need to hear it. You know, smash the subscribe button and we'll see you next time here on Auto Collabs, sign

Unknown: 31:00

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