Students of the Industry with Michael Lucki and Matthew Vollmers

Kyle Mountsier: 0:00You know in school, I've never stopped yourUnknown: 0:14

this is Auto Collabs

Michael Cirillo: 0:17

I have nightmares. I'm not kidding you. I've graduated high school. Congratulations, twenty two years ago. And I actually have nightmares. Sometimes I'll wake up and I'll be like, get Wait, I graduated. Right? Because like, I was not a good student. I was not a good student. They're like they they came

Kyle Mountsier: 0:37

in Oh, yep. It says, I graduated. One time I

Paul Daly: 0:42

that in, say that will say whatever you want to put let that crap? No, no. But for real, like the school experience is, is one of those things where everyone had a different experience with it. Some people that was good, some people was bad. Today's two guests are NADA Academy instructors. Right. So they have a feeling school that they're running is a little bit different than the school that we participated in, because you have slept through, perhaps,

Kyle Mountsier: 1:12

"participated"

Paul Daly: 1:13

air quotes. These are people who voluntarily come pay a lot of money to come and learn about how to you know, how to run a dealership about the dealership world. It's kind of like, I don't know, it's, I've never been through an NADA academy class. But I would assume it starts very high level, right? Because it's NADA, it's got to start at at the top. And I'm interested in how that gets contextualize. For today's auto industry. You know, because that really is the challenge of any long standing organization. How do you continually reinvent to stay relevant, meanwhile, you have a lot of momentum going, you just have a lot of, you know, size and system that that that momentum can just tend to carry you forward without the requirement to reinvent, but it's I'm curious to see how they actually navigate that. Well,

Kyle Mountsier: 2:00

I you know, what I've what I've noticed, and what I know of people that have been to nada Academy as it becomes a you know, like graduate programs are a lot about these cohorts. And it seems like these, the graduates all become like 90% of the value is actually not what happens in the class. It's what it's what happens with the community around around the class, it's this cohort mentality of like, I always check back in with these guys. It's like a second 20 Group almost, that is continuous that it's like, Hey, I get to check back in with this person or this person. And so I think that, you know, anytime, you know, we believe in building community first, and I think that there's an element that maybe NADA has, unbeknownst to themselves, built community out of classes, which is, which is kind of cool. Well, hey, we really hope that you enjoyed this conversation that we had with a couple of NADA class Academy instructors.

Paul Daly: 3:05

Well, it is fun. Today, we have two guests. Is it the first time we've had two guests, Kyle? I think it might be so this is Auto Collabs. First. We don't have one, but two NADA instructor. So we're talking about the people who have like their hands in the dirt shaping the perception and the hearts and the minds of the soon to be dealer personnel all across the country. Michael and Matt, thank you for joining us today.

Michael Lucki: 3:34

Welcome. Happy to be here.

Paul Daly: 3:36

All right. So I have to ask this question. Just to kick it off, we've had a little bit of interaction, you know, we met on social and we've met in person. And we've kind of have this little little understanding relationship going. Now. A lot of people talk about the next generation, right? It's a popular thing in culture, to throw under the bus and like it's not really a new thing. Let's be honest, this has happened for generation after generation, like kids these days. And although we're not talking about kids, but we are talking about kind of like a new generation of auto dealers moving into a new environment that requires different management skills, different people skills, different kind of like even just social navigation skills. I'd like to hear from both of you. What is your perception of the classes as as you know, the students are walking in? What are some overall perceptions? Let's go Michael, you can take it first. Because Kyle and I have the same problem. When someone asked two of us a question and leaves it open ended. We all just sit there and like look at each other like you want to go you go. I go you go you go. So Michael, why don't why don't you take that one first.

Michael Lucki: 4:36

All right. Thanks, Paul. So the Academy has been around for over 40 years. And we have over 12,000 graduates so one of the nice things about at your ASOTU CON is that I met up with people and the first thing they said is I'm graduation class this this awesome. So it's really great. And whenever we're in a room like that we sort of feel like rockstars because because they know the experience. They know what we do. They know what we're all about. So one of the things that we've noticed, though, over the years in this program, and I haven't been here that long, I graduated from the academy in 2015, as a student, myself, and so did Matt as a student. So we know what it's like on the student side, and now on the instructor side, but one of the things that I've noticed is that the classes used to be primarily sons and daughters of dealers, it was to prepare the next generation of successors dealer candidates to get them approvable by the OEMs. And also to get that knowledge. And it used to be maybe 70 80% of our students were successors, and maybe 15, or 20%, were general managers. Well, that's completely shifted, it's almost reversed. So our students are mostly general managers, 75 to 80%, are general managers, sales managers, finance managers, service managers, parts managers, sometimes, but most mostly they're the managers that are up and coming into stores. And about 20% are successors right now. So we've also grown the program from only teaching about 10 classes a year to teaching over 25 classes a year and teaching about 1000 students a year. So the the people that are coming through are young, they're diverse. There are a lot more women that are coming through. And it's, it's really, really inspiring to see the future leaders of our industry, being represented by people that want to learn want to change and want to be in touch with what's happening at the most progressive dealers in the country. So yeah, we have access to those people every single day in person and online.

Paul Daly: 6:43

But and also responsibility. I mean, Matt what do you do you see the background of this kind of new breed of folks coming through the classes? What backgrounds? Are they coming in from? You know, because it's not success? The successor background? Right? It's clear daddy had a dealership, right? That's how that works. Right. But this, this broadening out of the types of folks that are coming in, where are they coming from?

Matthew Vollmers: 7:08

Well, I see the whole spectrum, we had a gentleman come through as a retired full bird colonel in the Air Force, and immediately came to run more high level things. But the first thing was go through the academy. So you're seeing a very background of, like I said, ages and people and where you're from. And so you know, what I find is funny, those who have no experience or just were in fixed ops, they seem to gravitate more and really get more excited that they recognize the opportunity. You recognize something where you said, you know, the older generation, they say, No, these kids these days. The reality is the folks that come through arent, the normal meaning the masses, there, they don't fit that stereotype of that M word and Z word, which I'm not a fan of. Because I even challenged dealers, I said, look at your staff, you tell me if your top three people aren't between the ages of 18 and 42. And inevitably 90% of the hands go up. There's this thin stereo type crust of over the reality pie that exists in our industry of these bright, incredibly talented, hardworking folks. But the stereotype rules, and we get to see it firsthand. People grow. And Michael and I get towards the end of their journey. So they're already acclimated, they're already getting the fine touches of what the academy brings. Because your number, your class number follows you for life. And they get those intangibles, that's the bulk of who we see now, yes, the stereotypes still exist. That as a store, and I'm just going through this, or I really want to be a doctor, but I gotta go through the business.

Michael Lucki: 8:41

I hate that stereotype. If you are in that position, and you're very successful, it's because it was given to you. Yeah, and you're saying not successful? It was because you blew

Paul Daly: 8:53

it? Right. So you're saying there's, there's like, no, there's a no win scenario there. I mean, we were just in when we were, did any of Gregg Ciocca's sons go through the academy?

Matthew Vollmers: 9:06

Not recently that I can remember so but his love his team, a lot of his team has. This is I think it's almost like a rite of passage with a lot of groups. I know CMA, one of the phenomenal group right in my backyard, literally walked to the store in five minutes. There, people come through in droves. And people I knew when I was a Toyota rep, there were managers, just kind of getting through the business with previous ownership. So the Forward Thinking dealers are gonna be there. Now, Michael gets on this PhD as a pejorative. But I've seen so many people who are related who are that title would never apply because they've earned every bit of their stripes. And that's where that stereotype takes over. And it's unfair to them, and they've got an extra burden to prove they're not only there because of it. And Mike and I have a lot of banter back and forth over the five years about what a PhD is not I'm like, that's a pejorative. That's a lie.

Michael Lucki: 9:59

So While while I was at the ASOTU CON with you guys, and speaking on one of the panels, Matt was teaching a class in person to people from Carter Myers, there were two individuals that were there, their their leaders in their company that were going through his class in person and Tyson's, and Liza was sitting there, and Scott was sitting there listening to my panel. So it was really, and in the audience was a graduate of the Academy and president of his class, which was Ben St. Ours, at the at the show. So you can see the types of people that are investing in their people. And we see those people in our classes, they're investing time, money, effort to develop their staff, and really make sure that they're prepared. And that's one of the things that we have a responsibility to our students to provide,

Kyle Mountsier: 10:47

you know, in that responsibility, and, you know, when when I think about systems of education, no matter where they originate, or where they're a part of, whether you're talking about public school education, or private college education, or, or furthering education, like an organization like NADA, one of the things that, you know, that I always kind of have this question mark, and like, how do we keep things relevant? How do we keep things now, like, I've been thinking about my college career, and it's like, you know, just just the the idea of like, there are things moving in the world at the speed of light, especially over the last couple years, where, you know, new digital technologies, new approaches to retailing, all of that type of stuff. How are you all as, as Academy leaders, as well as the out of the academy, overall, keeping a pulse and making sure that things for these people that are coming through are relevant, and they're not fixated on, you know, learnings or courses developed 5 10 15 20 years ago, where I think there's probably some benefit, there's value there. But how do you balance that? And how do you keep a you know, on that cutting edge for for the people coming through.

Michael Lucki: 11:56

So Matt, you can take the part about the book, and what we, what we what we focus on in our content. But let me mention something about the academy. When you graduate from the Academy, the full program, you can come back and take any of the classes again, without paying the tuition. So you might think, well, people don't take advantage of that. Well, we had a class last night from six to 9pm. And of the 25 people that were online with us, 10 of them graduated within the last three years. So what are they doing? They're trying to stay relevant, what was the class and it was a variable ops class on advanced inventory and marketing management, night class. And, and one of them, his team won our auction Cup trophy, which was a competition on the auction, we appraise vehicles in the class. And then we watched them go through the auction today. And I watched him this morning go through, and his he wanted to repeat, right, his team won the first time. But anyway, it was a lot of fun in the class, Sean Ford shout out to you as a GM from California, and a dealer from California. But the the point is that we have to stay relevant. And the reason I went to a conference like yours was to make sure that we're relevant is to make sure that we're providing that information. And not just the information, providing the insights, that dealers are taking that information and actually making those changes back at their store. And we hear it every class, we hear it when people want to come back to our class. So we are constantly updating our content every single week, there's a different topic that we're bringing up. And a lot of times we're not in the stores to see it actually changed. But the students are so Matt, and I like to get out into stores. My family has stores in New York, I talked to them about the things that that that are going on, but we we make it our job to stay relevant. Matt, you want to tell them about our book?

Matthew Vollmers: 13:45

Absolutely. When I went through the academy, my book for the class, it was 160 pages. And I saw copper marks from 2007. And it was valid, but it wasn't fresh. Our book is now only 80 pages. Wow. Because what we've realized is what we there's three levels of information we convey what we can publish in the book, what we put on PowerPoint, what's verbally are handed over to you. And we realized I got an update on expense profiles that day the class started so I had to completely reworked the PowerPoint. say nope, ignore it. We try desk we try very hard to keep whatever the latest and greatest. I'm going to bring my wife and dear because I'm gonna be blunt. I've married way out of my league. And but what's funny is we travel and she goes, I know they're a student and you want to go to their store. Oh, and then if she sees a Carvana tag on a gas, say she's like, Oh, we're gonna be here for 10 minutes because I want to know what they're experiencing. So this is where Michael and I we started relatively close. We're like, we've got to push each other in. This is like the best compadres I've had ever in my lifetime. Because we challenge each other. And I knew I had earned his trust when he looked at me goes, You're wrong. And this is why not in a public environment but and then we debate it and he changed my mind. Think about those you deal with, if I can change your mind, but we also challenge the student, take this back. And if it works, we want to know if it's not I'll be, I'm trying to be polite. I want to know that too. But touring stores is one of the biggest things, and I do it on my own personal time. But that's how you get relevant, what's really working, where are the skybox. They're taking hits on the field, I want to get on the field at least engage with them in their own time, I want to tour their building, I want to shake every technicians hand. And just by osmosis, you pick up so much. And then in that tour, they reveal so more so much in the little details. And that's one of our biggest edges that we're allowed to get that time to go and see.

Michael Lucki: 15:43

Yeah, Matt, Matt brought that up time, time is really important. And guess how much time dealers and general managers have at their stores?

Paul Daly: 15:51

We know we know.

Michael Lucki: 15:53

So, so we don't teach the last week of each month, typically. And that's the week that we look at our content and we try to meet with vendors. A couple of the vendors that I met at your show I'm meeting with tomorrow, people, people that are pushing the envelope people that are having new, new ideas. And because we have that extra week, every month, that's the end of the month, which is difficult for us retail people to actually not be busy at the end of the month. But we when we have that extra week, we have the time to focus on things that our dealers do not maybe the dealer principal can, but the general manager and sales manager do not have the time to do the in depth analysis that we do. And you get to get your eyes up a little bit. Yeah, we focus on that every every week to work on people's businesses versus working in.

Michael Cirillo: 16:42

We talk a lot about the evolution of the car business. And I've heard two words from from both Matthew and Michael, that I really like. One is relevancy. One is preparation. I think so deeply about this idea of preparation. But also, as both of those words relate to the evolution of the car business, we talk a lot about how the car business is evolving. And as I've been listening to both you speak, gentlemen, I think about musicians, and how musicians have evolved playing instruments over the last 100 years, there were some incredible musicians back in the 50s 60s. But with evolution with preparation with the desire to remain relevant, we're now seeing guitarists who play percussion. And, you know, like they're, they're, they're they're predicated on asking the question of, okay, I have all the ingredients, I need to play music. But what if and that exploration that both you're talking about keeping your head above, you know, basically the baseline of what dealers can maybe do while they're operating their store? That's actually how we get this industry to grow. So I love I love that, in terms of preparation, how far ahead are, do you feel you need to be looking as an operator in order to stay adequately prepared or in a constant state of preparation so that you're not constantly bombarded by? Oh, crap? I didn't know there was a recession or oh, shoot, I didn't know this was happening. Because I mean, that's that seems to be the case. Right? There seems to be some operators that are like, Wait, when were they going to tell me that there was a chip shortage? You know, and it's like, well, you needed to be prepared, you needed to be looking ahead into the future. So is that is that something that the two of you are doing? And if so, how do you relay that information back to those that you instruct

Michael Lucki: 18:29

my goal? Being as we call it, being a student of the industry? And and how do you? How do you stay a student of the industry, and we're in a great industry. But Michael, as you said, there's so much going on every single day, if you if you if you read everything, you're gonna be overwhelmed. So in my mind, there's three buckets, there are things that you have to be aware of that might be coming in the future. But you don't have to do anything about right now. There are things to prepare for, that you have to have a strategy on that are already happening around you, or that you want to be the leader on. And those are things that you need to be strategizing with your management team, usually maybe a quarter or a half a year ahead of time. And then there's the last bucket, which are things that you have to act on right now. Otherwise, you are missing the boat or we're getting left behind. So in our class, I like our students to write down everything we're going to cover. There's going to be some things in the awareness bucket, there's going to be some things in the preparedness bucket and there's gonna be some things in the act now. bucket. So the awareness bucket, yeah, they follow it, but it's really not something that dealers are concerned about acting on right now like autonomous vehicles. It's very interesting to read about it, but our dealers really doing anything with it right now. No. All right. Electric vehicles have moved from awareness. To right now for to through preparedness actually, by I think we're in preparedness right now. into almost right now

Paul Daly: 19:57

like the later stages of preparedness. Windows closing to prepare. You got it. You got to be in motion and moving.

Michael Lucki: 20:05

Yeah. So we have to be aware of all of those the things that you have to work on right now to be successful at dealership things that you're that dealers are the five or 10% are doing right now that you don't want to be left behind, like digital tools in the showroom to present payments that are Penny. Perfect. I heard that at the show yours a couple of times. That's a preparedness part right Kramer's

Paul Daly: 20:25

yours are ringing he's like, and then there are

Michael Lucki: 20:29

the things that you have to act on right now. And most of our dealers are in the act right now bucket because they can't get to the prepared bucket. That's my thoughts on it. Matt, what do you think?

Matthew Vollmers: 20:41

Well, I mean, yeah, let's look at the history of people. And we're in the midst of a massive generational shift coming up. And Michael, you brought this up, how we're ingrained in our culture, and our thinking is with 30 day cycles. And you need to get someone to step back on that. I mean, you need your paycheck, you need to focus on your family member salesman. I love the person of the month I'm unemployed on the first of every month in there to build my sounds terrible. I know. It's a it's an adrenaline fix. Yeah, that once you get it, good luck shaking it.

Paul Daly: 21:13

Well, there's a personality type two that lends itself to excel in that environment, right.

Matthew Vollmers: 21:18

So first of all, stop thinking, keep make temporary, your thought then right there, Michael breaks up imperfect bucket. But you know, look at what the long term is going to be and recognize this. Now, with my class, there's discussions about used car inventory. And clearly, the music has slowed, in my opinion, and those who are paying attention could be caught without a chair when the music does stop. And the other thing I tell them is the other thing, be careful. That times breeds bad habits. And I love the same, but I also remind them, that's where to maybe shake that 30 day cycle. Yeah, not eliminate it. But you've got to have three cycles of how you look at things, what's coming down the road. And the more you're prepared for it, the more you are proactive than reactive. The

Paul Daly: 22:01

ironic thing about 30 day cycles is there really were established and driven by incentive programs, right, which are largely non existent. You know, so it's like we're in the cycle that was actually started for one reason, that isn't even relevant at all right now. But we've built a mechanism around it and a mentality around it, that forces us to go so like you're trying to break out of that, when if you took it like, if you know, I'll steal from when Steve Steve Greenfield puts it like this if aliens showed up on the planet today, right? And they looked at the way we did they would never say like this is how it should be done with an objectivity. And I think the same is true for any business advisor, we'd like to Why are you so set on this 30 day thing when you know, the play is actually broader than that? But like, Why is everything set around this? Well, we used to do these things, you know, who's

Michael Lucki: 22:49

you know, who's not on a 30 day cycle? Is your fixed operations department. That's the truth. They're on a daily cycle. And guess what the general managers that we see that come through from fixed operations, don't think of it that a 30 day cycle, they think about it every single day, I think lifetime, right? And we and we focus on how you can take that 30 day cycle and break it down to a daily or an hourly target for each person to make sure you're being productive. So you don't have those lulls in the month that you normally would have on a 30 day cycle.

Kyle Mountsier: 23:19

Yeah, I think about man, I think about that all the time. Like the fact that fixed ops, like everything is predicated on hours per day per day, right? Like, there's no sales department going sales per desk per hour, right. But if we measured to that, we would start setting appointments differently, we would start communicating with customers differently, we would start expecting certain outputs from from our variable ops teams differently. And I think that I think that you're absolutely right, if we can, if we can kind of like because I think there's good in both worlds, right. But if we can marry the two a little bit more, it would be dialed in, I've got a really a question that, like, feeds and serves me a little bit from from just like my marketing and tech and that background. But what's, you know, because I think, you know, obviously, from an operational standpoint, understanding the accounting, understanding the actual operations, like what goes into the people, management of the day to day is extremely important. But what are you seeing with this, especially with a newer generation? What's the stickiness or the attachment to some of the new technologies or some of the new understandings around marketing or data that that these? Are they coming in with a level of understanding or is there still a lot of learning to be had on that end as an industry?

Michael Lucki: 24:38

So a lot of learning? Very much so I mean, the people there there's typically about 10% of our class of the 30 people or so that are that know, this knows marketing really well. Just like 10 10% percent. Yeah. So people people like Eric Hall right. He was in our class. He was a graduate from N390. A recent class He was a leader in his class with regards to marketing, right. So there are people like that that are coming through our class. And those people really shine in those areas. But everyone in the class has an expertise in one area or the other. So what you'll find is that if we were in a class together, that you might be the expert on marketing, Kyle, and I'd be the expert on financial management, and Matt will be the expert on OEM relations. And we will all be training each other in that process. So So yes, there are not that many people that are experts on marketing that are coming through the academy. And we don't try to make them an expert, what we try to do is give them an understanding of why this is important, and how to how to make sure that your vendors are able to hold your vendors accountable, as well as holding your staff accountable. And understanding that this is more and more important. And you need to have someone at your dealership that is an expert, or someone that you can trust that is on your payroll that is an expert in this area. Whether it's you or someone else, you need to have that person

Kyle Mountsier: 25:57

that in every area, right. It's like, hey, look, there should be an expert in your in your staff. And I think that's a new mentality, especially because there are so many different segments. It's not like you can just run variable and fixed ops and then have accounting back it up. Right? There's these other little segments that are coming into the operations of a retail environment that maybe we haven't experienced. And so having those dedicated personnel, I think is just a staffing thing that that operators are, it seems like are having to deal with, well, we could ask questions, probably hours at this point, because this is this is probably the most practical tactical thing that we can be doing as an industry is learning and relearning over and over and over, especially as the speed of change is happening in our industry. But Michael and Matthew, really appreciate you being on today and and having the fun of bouncing back and forth questions. It's been a pleasure. And thanks for all that you do for our industry. On behalf of all three of us. Thanks for joining us on

Matthew Vollmers: 26:55

QA one thing you touched on it, you said Alvin Toffler is a futurist passed away. Someone who had similar impact on my life, he said, the illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn, and how evident for the times that we are. And I tell our students, if you think you had to relearn everything in the last two and a half years, buckle up, the next three are going to be asking now, real quick, you talked about expertise, but they don't have that underlying current of take care of the customer. That foundation is what simply has to change in our industry. In my opinion. It's not about setting the appointments about that that connection. I think someone on a Sunday night, rainy Sunday night in Philadelphia told me, it's not about cars, from a loudspeaker on a stage to people. They told me it was about connecting the people. And that is our biggest strength. And, you know, it's something critical. Thank you both for your time.

Kyle Mountsier: 27:58

Thank you. Thank you so much. And yeah, we'll look forward to continued conversations.

Paul Daly: 28:07

Okay, I have to say, the fact that, you know, we talked a little bit after the interview, and asked some like logistical questions like, how do people actually experience the class? How much does it cost? How do they sign up, just assuming that some of this audience for the auto collapse podcast might not have any experience with nada Academy. And the one thing that they told us like the in person version, there's an in person and an online version, and the fact that the in person version has that, like what you talked about, you know, before the podcast started this, the education that happens around the education, right, and the relationships you meet, and, you know, the availability of the people that you go through that forever, will always say, Hey, I'm class of whatever, however they designate it. And so I think that coming through nada Academy, yes, you learn tactics. And, you know, yes, you learn some systems and strategies, but I'll bet that the relationships forged in nada Academy still exist decades later, even today, and that will probably be the case for the future, too. Yeah. To me, this, this, this mentality of like that this is ongoing. I was really surprised to hear that, you know, last night, they had that online class, the

Kyle Mountsier: 29:21

you know, from when this was recorded, that 10 out of 25 of the people on it, were repeat learners. Right. And that's encouraging to me because that tells me like dealers or people that are pursuant to being a dealer are extremely interested in like, Okay, I maybe went through this two or three years ago, but that maybe there's something new and relevant than I need to be approaching or a classmate that can teach me something that I didn't know before. Because I do think that especially the way this industry is evolving, right now and the speed of change. Like to go through nada class in 2015 is kind of like it It, it's literally irrelevant to what's going on right now like 2015 to 2022, the irrelevancy of the way that data is handled the way that marketing handled the way that even operations in the sales department and operations in the service, like nobody was doing video in the service department in 2015. And now people are right. Like, that's an operational difference that you have to understand at this point, you know, and so that's encouraging to me that people are continuing their education, and that you kind of like once you're in, you're in. I didn't know that about nada Academy. So pretty cool.

Michael Cirillo: 30:35

I had two thoughts listening to this conversation. The first one was, how in the world?

Paul Daly: 30:46

As soon as you say this robot,

Michael Cirillo: 30:48

like, how in the world? Well, the first thing is, and I don't want to make this comparison, but I feel like it's, it's the one that came to my mind. I'm like, Could this be like Top Gun for car dealers? Because based on the second thing, I'm about to say, How in the world do you convince this many people in our industry to do any amount of reading? Because that's been a long standing problem in our industry? Legit, I wrote a book, like how many pages is the book? Like if you had to break it down to word count? Like what am i into this for like, a couple hours?

Paul Daly: 31:22

That's exactly why I included pictures in my right mind. So long article,

Michael Cirillo: 31:28

on the back of what you're saying, Kyle, this community and what you're saying, Paul relationship, I thought of that, because I'm like, Well, what happens in Top Gun you, you come in from all different areas, with certain skill sets, perhaps the ingredients to be successful. You go through the academy, from a high level all the way down to the to graduation, you've now learned how to assemble those ingredients in the right sequence. But also then I was like, how do we get so many people in this industry to read, but it makes sense that I think it was Matthew saying it's a small percentage of dealers that actually go through this thing? And that's where the top gun I was like, Okay, so that's how that happened. So really enjoyable episode with our new pals, Mike, Michael. I almost had Mike. I gotta work on that. Maybe his mom doesn't like him being called My

Paul Daly: 32:18

My name him Michael. I named

Michael Cirillo: 32:20

Matthew, Michael and Matthew from nada Academy. We hope you enjoyed this episode of auto collabs. On behalf of myself, Paul J. Daly, and car mounts here. Thanks for joining us on this episode. We'll catch you on the next one.

Kyle Mountsier: 32:33

Sign up for our free and fun to read daily email for free shot of relevant news and automotive, retail media and pop culture. You can get it now@asoto.com That's ASO T u.com If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time. Welcome to recording

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