A Job Your Mother-In-Law Would Be Proud Of with Matthew Haiken

Paul J Daly: 0:00So there's this principle that I Seth Godin, I think is the first one who brought it up.

‍Kyle Mountsier: 0:12

This is auto-collapse Always wear hats backwards in podcast no.

Paul J Daly: 0:18

Well, that's like the pregame. I don't know if I've ever seen Seth Godin in a hat, but I did find out he rides a big Harley, so I just picture Seth Godin on a Harley.

Michael Cirillo: 0:29

Wait, wait, wait, seth Godin rides a big.

Paul J Daly: 0:32

Harley, rumor has it and I just picture him with an orange helmet, riding through to the streets of New York City in a suit, and it just feels right.

Michael Cirillo: 0:42

I just picture him now wearing a helmet that is a replica of his bald head.

Paul J Daly: 0:48

No.

Michael Cirillo: 0:49

So that no one can tell the difference.

Paul J Daly: 0:50

No one can tell the difference. No, there's definitely goggles involved. It's not right. Oh, absolutely, there's definitely goggles involved.

Kyle Mountsier: 0:57

And there's actually a new. There's actually a new album called Goggins and Godin and Goggles.

Paul J Daly: 1:04

Goggins and Goggles, goggins and Goggles, godin and Goggles, godin and Goggles.

Kyle Mountsier: 1:08

So back to that principle, godin and Goggles that I've derailed our whole conversation All right.

Paul J Daly: 1:13

So I do that all the time. I chase the squirrel. But the principle is he says he calls it find the others, and he talks about what happens when groups of he talked about it when, like, the internet came out and all of a sudden, like, if you like to wear red hats, you can find other people that wear red hats and you can organize a bus trip full of people that like to wear red hats and go a place right In your red hats, and but the bottom line is like, when you start to find the others, a strange thing starts to happen and you start to believe in what you believe in even more deeply because you've connected with other people who believe the same thing. And today's guest, matthew Haken, came to us that way. We put out more than cars episode one, the pilot episode, if you haven't seen it more than carstv, and he saw it and he was like these are my people, like I believe the same thing, and so he reached out and we've started to build this relationship, and he realized, man, there are people that believe these things all over the country that we just have no idea that we exist. And so you know, that's Matthew. I don't know, does anybody else want to say anything, or should I just roll us into the interview?

Michael Cirillo: 2:19

Well, I was just thinking about. I was just thinking about rubber ducks and jeeps. You guys know the whole, because this is like kind of what you're?

Kyle Mountsier: 2:28

Oh, it's a whole thing.

Michael Cirillo: 2:29

It's a whole thing, and I didn't realize it was a whole thing until I moved to the States, where you pass a Jeep on the highway or you see them in a parking lot and their whole dash is covered in rubber ducks.

Paul J Daly: 2:42

I don't know what this is, what Apparently?

Kyle Mountsier: 2:46

if there's stores that have like buckets of duck, rubber ducks in the front and jeep stores and people just come and pick a new one out, the funny part is I've seen the rubber ducks but I've just thought like that's a dealership.

Speaker 2: 2:59

They're doing some kind of crazy promo.

Paul J Daly: 3:00

No, no, no In a kiddie pool and they're gonna like put a percentage underneath of it and that's your APR.

Michael Cirillo: 3:04

No, it's basically exactly what you were just talking about and just adds validity to that thought process in my mind. When you if you're a Jeep, because that community is tight anyways, almost like motorcycle culture, you know you pass a motorcycle, not quite waving to each other when we pass, but Right right, they put a. They'll leave a little rubber duck on your Jeep for you, and then that Jeep owner displays it on their dash. So it's like just a, I don't know it's. I was going to say it's dumb but it's not because it's so widespread, so it's pretty cool Massive community.

Paul J Daly: 3:39

And that's what I just realized that I forgot, michael, that you ride and I ride and Kyle runs, so that's a good combo. You and I can ride and Kyle can run along.

Kyle Mountsier: 3:48

I'll run along, not a problem, hey well we hope you enjoy this conversation, which is all about finding the others when Matthew.

Paul J Daly: 4:03

Hey Matt, thanks for giving us some time today. I'm really looking forward to seeing where this goes, because if I've learned one thing about you, you are unpredictable.

Kyle Mountsier: 4:15

He's like fair fair.

Paul J Daly: 4:17

Let me ask you this question, though we are we are fairly new friends, right? We've been both in the industry for a long time and we just met, like a couple of months ago. What? What was your impression when you saw us? So do we're like, what were you even thinking? I always go over that.

Matthew Haiken: 4:34

So first of all, I tracked you guys down when I saw the first episode that you guys launched of more than cars more than cars. And it just blew my mind because for so long I would see all of these long form industry spotlight shows based on real estate, based on aviation, based on marine, and I'm just, I love automotive retail and nobody could tackle it. And I saw your first episode and I was like just that's, that is what I imagined, and I just went nuts and I tracked you down on social media and said hey, what's going on? I want to meet you. I love what you did. And then I knew one of I guess I'm friendly with. Am I supposed to drop names or not?

Kyle Mountsier: 5:32

drop as many names as you want in succession, in order right, I've been friends with Liza for many years.

Matthew Haiken: 5:40

We're the same 20 group and I guess she's one of your early investors. And I wrote to Liza and I was like what is this? Please tell me about it. She's like you don't know. And then you know, we jumped on and we talked and I was more disappointed, like where the hell have I been? Like did I hitch myself to the wrong wagon? Like I didn't even know you guys existed and and fast forward to commentale these days. Fast forward today where, like I am like all in oh, you're done now.

Paul J Daly: 6:14

I don't even know, we broke you into everything.

Matthew Haiken: 6:16

Yeah, yeah, right, that's how we connected, that's it.

Paul J Daly: 6:20

Yeah, Before you know it, Kyle and I are going to show up. You know, looking for a couple couches to crash on hey man, Anytime.

Matthew Haiken: 6:26

Anytime it's my pleasure.

Kyle Mountsier: 6:30

So, so, real quick, I want to hear from your perspective because you're like, I've seen all these shows about different, you know different verticals and the way they present their vertical, and then I saw more than cars and it was the way that I imagined it, like when, when you mean that, the way that I imagined it and the way that, like that show and particular kind of maps toward all the other things that you've seen out there for other, for other industries, like, can you like describe that from your perspective, because I'm always interested, like it's simple like working and automotive retail is glamorous.

Matthew Haiken: 7:04

It should be something that you are proud to tell your mother in law about. Okay, and it's not. It's not. People are embarrassed. People, you know, say, hey, I want to get a job at a car dealership. I don't think it's something that they want to shout through the rooftops. They'll like mumble it, they're embarrassed of it. And that's insane. Because everywhere I go, people want to talk to me about cars and the car industry. And you know, yesterday I mean, everyone's coming up to me tell me about the strike. Should I buy a car now? Like you know, we are leaders in our community and the stories that, that, that, that you know, makeup of our industry are amazing, amazing. And what you know, what are the metrics? I always say Like when, when I introduce myself and I say, hey, I sell cars, you know, and and if people like Huff and puff, you know, one thing I've always like, leaned on is I was. I was like do you know any sports team owners own car dealerships? Do you know the wealthiest two guys on the planet, like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates, are the biggest car dealers like like everybody wants to be a car dealer and we need to. We need to be proud of this and we need to because we're in the people business and you know we've got a lot of a lot of competition coming down the pike and everyone thinks that they're the smartest guy in the room and they can reinvent our business, and all the Wall Street people think they know our business. But at the end of the day, we're a people business and for us to just keep growing and getting stronger, better, we need to attract the best talent to the industry.

Kyle Mountsier: 8:39

So you've been in the industry how long? Yeah, I need to-.

Matthew Haiken: 8:42

So this is my 18th year full time. My dad was a single point car dealer operator who had to beg, borrow and steal to get his first opportunity to be a car dealer A friend, it was Volvo. It was Volvo he had. You know, my dad wasn't very studious as a kid. His parents were very, very hardworking people and he had a lot of jobs and odd jobs and jumped in and out of school and kept changing schools and getting thrown out of school and, you know, started in the lot as a valet and then became a service advisor and then became a service manager. And you know this same story that you hear over and over again worked his way up to becoming a general manager at a store and the owner promised him some equity. The deal blew up and he ended up leaving the store after relocating his family, which is I have two older sisters and I wasn't even born yet and had no job. And it was some manufacturers that called him up and said, hey, we want to find an opportunity for you. And he was like I got no money. They're like don't worry about it, let's just find an opportunity for you. And they drove around looking for opportunities, I mean, but like. You hear that story every day and you know you don't get that in other industries. That doesn't happen.

Speaker 2: 10:08

No no.

Kyle Mountsier: 10:10

Okay, so 18 years? This is like to go back to the original, so 18,? Are you seeing an acceleration of those conversations, like those conversations with friends and family members and people that you happen upon that find out you're a car dealer and are the conversations about auto and because that's what I'm experiencing.

Matthew Haiken: 10:31

I think it's new. I mean, everybody always wants to know like oh, I love cars, or tell me how.

Kyle Mountsier: 10:35

When's the best time to buy a car, exactly, but now it's like we've got it's texture.

Matthew Haiken: 10:41

Things to discuss, like tell me about a bunch of occasion, tell me about you know the future, like you know it's all these. I think it's become a little bit more glamorous.

Paul J Daly: 10:50

Oh, it's part of pop culture, without a doubt. I mean you look at like things, even events like CES, right, all of a sudden you see the swirling conversation around cars and tech and playstations and like all the integration of pop culture and automotive. We've been saying, you know, one of our little drums that we've been beating for the last year is like car culture, like automotive, hasn't been this attractive to the general public since like the 70s right, when it was like muscle cars and it's a part of culture now. And you know that's. I mean the strike is obviously it's just an economic thing, but you take that out of the equation and people have an interest. You know you have a really unique spot. When I tell other dealers about you they get a little interested because you also have a Polestar dealership.

Matthew Haiken: 11:35

Absolutely, and that's been crazy. And it's been crazy from the beginning, you know, for several things. First of all, we took over a former Tesla showroom. Okay, so my Polestar space is in the mall at Short Hills it's Uber luxury shopping mall outside of New York City and we secured a spot and then, simultaneously, tesla decided to leave the mall. Cause now Tesla wants dealerships and TV startups want to be in the mall. I run by you.

Paul J Daly: 12:10

I feel like this could just work out Exactly.

Matthew Haiken: 12:13

So we move into this Tesla space and just even uncovering, like what was going on in this space, like the bulbs they use that weren't, like the LED bulbs that the manufacturers mandate that we get for being green I mean, these were like just cheap, down and dirty bulbs. To then it was just. It blew my mind.

Paul J Daly: 12:34

You're like that's the Tesla bulb, Like you were expecting something. You're like, no, they were like let's be efficient with the bulb, Exactly, you don't have to.

Matthew Haiken: 12:42

I mean we should learn from that quick, efficient and then. Yet learning how to staff and operate in a mall was totally new to us and being all in on electrification and the ups and downs of the tax incentives and everything I mean.

Paul J Daly: 13:00

Did people get confused? Like were people like that walk by, maybe familiar with them? I'll still think you were the Tesla store.

Matthew Haiken: 13:06

They still are confused. I mean, they'll come in with a broken charger and be like hey, my charger's broken, Can you replace it? We're like oh, welcome to the Pulsar. We're Pulsar. Yeah, I know, yeah, but my Tesla charger's broken. No, no, we're not, they don't even, they don't even.

Kyle Mountsier: 13:19

They just associate all electric with Tesla. You plug in.

Paul J Daly: 13:22

These are the ones you plug in, right?

Matthew Haiken: 13:23

Yeah, yeah, that'll show you that the early Tesla adapters were not? They didn't product design, they didn't care about you know, they just wanted the product. They don't even look up and notice it.

Paul J Daly: 13:34

So what's the experience been being a Pulsar? You know, aside from the retail space, what are, who are the consumers walking in, what are they looking for, what are the hangups? You know, like you're on the front lines of this EV evolution.

Matthew Haiken: 13:47

Well, I think it's really changed dramatically right? So this is, I think I'm going on, my second anniversary. This is two years that I'm taking this Pulsar journey and in the beginning, when we first launched, it was before the Inflation Reduction Act and those tax incentives and it was during the time that there was major shortage of inventory. But we had a ton of inventory. So in the beginning it was very interesting. We were getting these very sophisticated early adopter EV buyers that were basically like EV flippers. I mean, they knew everything. These people knew the time to buy a Bolt because they were giving away a complimentary home charger and then they knew, based on the market, that they get the Bolt, get the free charger, then trade in the Bolt, get more for the Bolt than they paid for it for me, oh, they just were working it. I mean they worked this the tax incentive, the 7500 at the time they worked it brilliantly. And I mean it was fantasy land for us because we had inventory, we had a great value pricing, we were getting in the most beautiful trades you've ever seen in your life and we were like high-fiving each other. We thought we were the smartest guys in the block. Obviously, you know it's.

Paul J Daly: 15:08

It's like when you have a first child and that child just happens to have a pretty subdued personality, you're like what's with all these other parents that suck right? Then you have the second one and you're like, oh okay, maybe I wasn't that brilliant.

Matthew Haiken: 15:22

It was crazy, you know the market conditions were crazy and then we navigated. So the earlier tax incentives go away, ira comes out. Manufacturers are still figuring out do we give 7500 on a lease? What's going on? We have a major shortage of product and it was super, super challenging. And it was challenging in many ways and still challenging because it's like okay, I'm in a mall, I'm open seven days a week, my traditional car guy and gal who's looking to you know sell a car for 10,000 over MSRP or something like this. I can't attract. The people that I'm getting are coming from these startups that you would love. Like we were getting, you know, resumes from Peloton, resumes from Apple, you know all these things that the manufacturers are like dreaming of. How do we get these people? We're getting these people in and then we're figuring out okay, these people might know tech really good, but they're really not that great at building relationships. They're not there to pick up the phone on the first ring after the sale when the customer has a question on DMV or a like on how servicing works. So, like it blew my mind with the people and yeah, so now what's the transition Like?

Kyle Mountsier: 16:46

where are you?

Matthew Haiken: 16:47

We're learning. We're still learning every day. You know we really are. It is changing, right, because you know what I have to say. When Elon bought Twitter or X as it is now, I mean people are coming in all the all day long be like ah, I Screw, elon, we, we want choice, we want, we want a whole song Again, like, so, like I love this, like it's a startup. It's that's a constantly moving market, just a moving target at all times, that's why I signed up and and I love it, because it's like, all right, we're gonna, we're gonna try to make it. You know, I was an early fisk or dealer.

Speaker 2: 17:27

When? Oh no way.

Matthew Haiken: 17:28

Yeah, yeah, it was probably like the third brand I acquired, that you know, and that was just a major failure. But this is, this is a little bit different. I mean, I like to say you know, a lot of the EV startups right now are still fantasy land, like if you look at the Rivians and the Lucid's, you know they're. If you look at their sales numbers, they're really not selling a lot of cars. I mean, we're at least real life. We've got cars on the ground. We have real buyers are coming in every day. They're coming in for service every day, mm-hmm. And then a whole nother part of this is that you know Paul sir is on, is you know an online first brand, so it's negotiation free and the customer's journey really is their journey online. How does that?

Paul J Daly: 18:12

handoff happen.

Matthew Haiken: 18:13

Yeah, so. So it's that's an interesting question so.

Paul J Daly: 18:20

I was like remember the two years thing, that's a big topic of conversation, right, how do we hand off from digital to in person? And you feel like with a digital first brand, maybe you have an insight or two, because it's designed for the handoff the insight is it's constantly changing.

Matthew Haiken: 18:40

Okay, in the beginning, these early adapters that I told you about, they could complete the sale for me to see, okay, they could do it and we wake up in the morning and we text savvy credit.

Kyle Mountsier: 18:53

Not well, let me tell you about credit.

Matthew Haiken: 18:54

Okay, bad credit near prime, not subprime, but near prime credit. Loves a brand that does everything online because they no longer have to come into the store and face rejection. We had a lot of near prime credit in the beginning Because they just wanted to see if they get approved.

Kyle Mountsier: 19:18

I mean they could sit at home in their pajamas and see if you know the deal is gonna get hung, so for so near prime is like and like I just want to make sure because there's a lot of people that might not know like that 630 to 680 type type range, ish yeah and I think I you know I'm not the first to say this I think there's a lot of use, car independence, and they see the same thing.

Matthew Haiken: 19:37

You know, if their digital retailing Was strong, if they had the tools in place, they would see a lot of near prime, I think. I think our Vana was really successful with this because in that market, because people didn't want to go into the traditional Deal ship and face rejection, so that's, that's one thing. But we wake up in the morning and we get the orders and we high-five each other yes, we're awesome. And then it really kind of dried up because People really weren't willing to hit that button Without someone kind of holding their hand. So we would get a lot of inbound phone calls hey, I'm about to place disorder on this car. Can you walk me through it? Can you help me hit the button? So it's, it's all over the board and I think at the end of the day, you know you got it. You gotta be a chameleon, you gotta be able to do Bo you still right, there's still no.

Paul J Daly: 20:35

People still buy the cars, right, and people are in all kinds of situations with all kinds of emotional attachments and all kinds of challenges. So, like buying a car online, only you're just show, you're just again like a proof case that it's just not a it's not. I don't think it's ever gonna be a reality.

Matthew Haiken: 20:52

Well, there's also. There were all these struggles that we have. So, for example, they, they we have a central stock Methodology, a poll store where we don't stock cars Okay, it's centrally stock, but we do have some cars that are on the ground and those cars and I think there's a lot of Ford stores out there that could experience the same thing customer orders a lightning, lightning falls through. Okay, it's supposed to be central stock, online only, so now it's sitting on the ground. Okay. So then you start to build up some sort of ground stock and, because it's like an online negotiation free Process, customers would go anywhere for a certain color or certain option. You know, maybe these are built for leasing and we do a lot of leasing. So having a trailer hitch on a car that's pre-installed at the port, that means that that trailer hitch get residualized fully and it's a lot cheaper than Installing it at the service department. Painful price if you lease it. So like you would see a customer that would go, you know, five states over Because that car on the ground had the trailer hitch. Well, it really, at hometown motors went away because these and these consumes are so smart. Their inventory systems on reddit were better than any manufacturer I've ever seen. They. Unreal they knew and that's why, like, we need we need these people to like incubate these ideas, because these, these reddit groups, right, they had all the inventory on the ground of every store when that's on public, I said for them. They outlined all the dock fees for every, every, every space. So, like they know, the Florida dealers have a 995 dock fee. In the New York dealers have a 175 dock fee. I mean, these consumers are super smart.

Michael Cirillo: 22:39

Wow.

Kyle Mountsier: 22:41

You're like have them build the digital retailing.

Paul J Daly: 22:46

Right, you're gonna find the people that are breaking your stuff the most, and then you're gonna hire them.

Matthew Haiken: 22:51

Listen, I've always embraced them. I've had people that are on our team and they want to fight that, that that lease hacker guru that knows rates and results. Like you know, I was trying to translate like embrace them, let's make this quick and easy. But yeah, so I mean, and I'm learning every. I have so many learnings regarding this what one major learning Was really the difference between being brand dedicated EV and, let's just say, the typical Mercedes Benz store, especially when their EVs first came out? Like I was hearing horror stories from customers saying nobody knew how charging work, nobody knew the car and and I've said it's because, like five car Fred turned into the EV specialist and you know that that was the person who was responsible for educating this consumer on EVs and it made that customer experience kind of not not amazing. And In our store, you know, because we're all EV, you know everyone knows EV, we're brand dedicated EV. It's not, like you know, a tug-of-war process and and I think to this day you still see that in a Ford store, you'll see that in a Kia Hyundai store, you'll see that the Mercedes Benz store, where you know they've got, you know, a small group of people that know and like to sell EVs, because the masses are still selling nice cars.

Kyle Mountsier: 24:19

Real quick. Okay, as we end, I've got one last question. Are you considering the mall slash alternate retail shopping environment For other manufacturers that you currently have or want to have in the future? Do you see a path for that, or is it unique to the Polestar EV brands? The mall is media.

Matthew Haiken: 24:41

Okay, the mall is media and Come on, Put that on a shirt anymore. The problem is this right, the eyeballs that are at our space, they might necessarily be my customers. Right, because because, like this is a mall right outside New York City, it's a huge international population because people, before people fly back Europe or Asia, they'll they'll stay at the hotel there and do some tax-free shopping before they go home. They might be on a leg over. You might have people that are coming through the New York area and this is a light over before they go to wet the West Coast. So it's media, but it's not my like my local media. So I think there definitely needs to be some. I think there's value there, but I think it needs to be co-opt Among the entire network, because to have one dealer be responsible for this geographic location, it's really spray and pray, you know, and there's some really. So I also I learned some really interesting things and there's some really interesting Tools out there that track you know where the people come from, where they go after warbricks, that we don't really use an automotive retail, but all the all the big box retailers use it, yep. So I mean it's, it's long-winded, like it's, it's, it's fantastic, but it's really, it's not my local, it's not my local traffic. So I think we all need to show you're not putting Lincoln's in there. No, I mean, I'm not. I mean again, and maybe it's just geography, like if I was in another part of the country.

Paul J Daly: 26:29

Well, the mall was a center point for the community. Right, you'd reconsider, it'd be a different, exactly, but we're on.

Matthew Haiken: 26:34

I'm, we're on that, no, but yeah, I mean right now for a new brand that nobody really knows what it is. I understand why they want to be there. If we weren't there, I probably wouldn't be the dealer. And yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens the next few years.

Kyle Mountsier: 26:50

You Very cool, very cool. Well, matt, just a ton of insight. Super fun. You're going to be at a Sotocon and obviously around around the Sotiverse on the wheelhouse. People haven't caught that podcast with Daniel Gover. They got to check it out. So thanks for sharing a little bit of time with us here on Auto Glass Anytime, guys. Thanks so much.

Paul J Daly: 27:15

How about when Matthew says I don't consider my mall? Look, he's like the mall location for him. He goes. I consider that as media, as media. Oh that just made me fall over man.

Kyle Mountsier: 27:29

You know, it's crazy, actually, one of one of my favorite things that I don't know. If you know who Steve on LinkedIn is and I just call him Steve on LinkedIn because he's always the, the antithesis to every conversation- I told him I would give him a free ticket to a Sotocon just because I really think he's somebody else, I don't know.

Paul J Daly: 27:51

but he very respectfully declined.

Kyle Mountsier: 27:55

So you know his like one of his things that he always comes back to. He's like well, do you put your building and your sign in your advertising dollars, Because it's the biggest advertising dollars you're possibly spending. Because everybody puts it on the corner of a space, right, and it's like oh, so you mean, if I put a whole retail location in a mall where people are just passing by and maybe they can't do everything right there and they can't test drive in it, but it must be media because I'm driving traffic through it, Like that's retail mindset right there, that is totally this is something to.

Michael Cirillo: 28:27

This is a call back slash, call forward to conversations that were happening six, seven, eight years ago, where many people in the industry were predicting smaller floor plans, smaller showrooms, maybe mall locations and and so you're starting to see that it's. It's kind of no surprise to me that you're starting to see that. I mean, when I was in New York recently, we we stumbled upon this mall in a skyscraper in Hudson Yards and sure enough, dealerships inside of there and having this whole experiential type thing, and so it just makes sense to me and I love, I love Matthew's mindset around, around, how he's thinking about that.

Paul J Daly: 29:08

I love that, michael, just I love that. Michael just brought that mall up Kyle the first time we ever like. That was like our very first like. Let's conceptualize what we're going to do together.

Michael Cirillo: 29:18

Was it a demo?

Paul J Daly: 29:19

We went. We went to that mall. I think we need a check Absolutely.

Michael Cirillo: 29:22

Yeah, there's a shake shack in there, it's the same mall, it's right. Yeah, it's right. That's exactly where this is. Oh well, I'm on keys on that.

Paul J Daly: 29:31

No, our buddy Matt is right there. He's. I'm sure he's been there, but we hope you had fun on this episode of Auto Collapse. We sure did make sure you follow Matt and everything he's doing, because he's been one of those sleepers in the industry that everyone's about to figure it out. So, on behalf of Kyle Mount Sierra, michael Cirillo and myself, thanks for listening to Auto Collapse.

Speaker 2: 29:50

Sign up for our free and fun to read daily email for a free shot of relevant news and automotive retail media and pop culture. You can get it now at a so to dot com. That's ASO T you dot com. If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.

Kyle Mountsier: 30:21

Welcome to Auto Collapse.

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